Politically Incorrect March 7, 2002 Guests: Merrill Markoe Jason Jones Eric Idle Shawnee Smith Bill: Good evening and welcome to "Politically Incorrect." Let me tell you who's with us tonight. Shawnee Smith, good to have you back. [ Light applause ] Wait till the end. Sorry, we told you to wait till the end. She is on "Becker," of course. Big hit show 9:30, Mondays, CBS. Thank you. Shawnee: Thank you. Bill: Jason Jones, you are the spokesperson for S.A.L.T. And your radio show, "Facts of Life," syndicated everywhere. Welcome aboard. Jason: Thank you. Bill: Merrill Markoe, your new book, "It's My F'ing Birthday." I think that's very funny. Apparently, the audience doesn't. [ Laughter ] Merrill Markoe, you're always funny. Now you've got a funny book called, "It's My [ bleep ] Birthday." Maybe that's funnier if I say it that way. [ Laughter ] Okay, there you go. And Eric Idle, "Monty Python," you were the funny one. [ Laughter ] And, as you've said for many years, you've been trying to find a way out of show business. You just cannot locate the exit. You've told me that many times. Give a hand to our panel. [ Cheers and applause ] Let's talk a little bit about what so many people are talking about, we mentioned it the other night. The Catholic Church has a little problem on their hands. Some of their priests are a little hot under the collar -- for young boys. [ Laughter ] Boston, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Los Angeles -- all these cities have been in the news recently. And let me just say we did talk about this the other night. We've talked about it before. People accused me of being -- Catholic bashing. I was raised Catholic, I'll admit it. I'll admit it, I was a Catholic. And it's not really personal. Yes, they caused me a lot of pain. Before puberty, I would say nobody caused me more pain than the Catholics. Jason: A slap on the wrist with a ruler isn't a lot of pain, Bill. Bill: That's not all that it was. You're right. And you know what? A part of it is, I apparently was not attractive enough to be hit on. [ Laughter ] By the priests. And that hurts. Merrill: That's so sad. Bill: Because I had an inner beauty that they didn't see. No. But the question I want to ask tonight is different. Which is shouldn't they be able to marry? Wouldn't that stop this from being such a hot bed of homosexual pedophilia? Eric: I think they should be able to marry. But I think they should be able to marry each other. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] Jason: That's the Unitarian Church. That's the Unitarian Church. Bill: Much more radical. Merrill:I disagree. I think they should be able to marry children. Merrill: If they marry each other, then they can't have children. Eric: Exactly. Jason: You know, Bill, the vast majority of pedophiles are married men. And this is a problem that's bigger than the Catholic Church. Today it was reported that a judge is involved in downloading child pornography and molested children. And we have a rabbi in New York. This incident with some Mormon leader in Oregon. We have a problem in this country where we sexualize children, we objectify children and we see them as sex objects. Bill: You're right. That's a different issue. Jason: So I think chastity and celibacy has nothing to do with -- Bill: Well, if it has nothing to with it, why don't we hear about it with rabbis, ministers -- Jason: We do. In New York, this rabbi, it was just reported, was molesting a boy. Bill: To what degree, really, do you think -- can you honestly sit there and tell me that the degree, that the severity of the problem is the same in places where celibacy doesn't exist? Jason: Well, yeah. I do. Bill: You can do that? Jason: I believe it's in Protestant Churches and in public schools. This is an epidemic sweeping our country. The Catholic Church is a universal church around the world. And this problem is limited to the church in the United States. In England this isn't a problem. We don't find this problem with the Catholic Church in Europe, in South America. Bill: You're right. In African countries, they rape the nuns. Jason: The priests? Bill: Yeah. Jason: Well, that's the first I heard of it. Eric: I rather like the idea that people should be, you know, you should marry as a punishment for this. I kind of like that. [ Laughter ] Merrill: It's a lot harder to be married than to be a priest. Eric: Yeah, you get sentenced to 15 years of marriage, you know, if you're found. Merrill: Also, once you're married, it eliminates the urge to have sex. Jason: Exactly. [ Laughter ] Merrill: Problem solved. Jason: Hollywood's had a problem. We had Michael Jackson was accused of raping a child. We have, recently, Paula Poundstone was accused of raping a child. This is an epidemic. Shawnee: But she was acquitted. Bill: Yeah. And I don't think she was accused of raping a child. Jason: Molesting a child. Fondling a child or something. Bill: Yeah. Shawnee: Well, we're talking about priests that are in a position of, like, a holy vow. You're talking about God. Organized religion is so dangerous, because you're talking about the forever after. Jason: I do agree with you. Priests should be held to a higher standard. But Jesus had Judas, and there are still Judases in the Catholic Church. Bill: What? [ Laughter ] Merrill: I was thinking the most vulgar thought while he was saying that. And I didn't even -- Bill: I understand Jesus had Judas. Jason: And there are still people in the church who rebel against the church's teachings. And this is a problem limited to the Catholic Church in the United States. Bill: The church's teachings do evolve over time. So, you know, one day might be Judas. Another day might be Pope John Xxiii. Jason: No, rules do. Rules evolve. The Catholic Church can change this. They can say tomorrow, "Priests can get married," and that would be perfectly acceptable because that's a rule of the church. Some things the church can't change. Like they can't change their pro-life position. That was true tomorrow, today, forever. Merrill:-- Fish on Friday? That was a wacky one. Jason: That was just a rule. Churches haves rules. And that was a rule of the church that they made and they changed. Eric: It was good for trade. Merrill: And on your f'ing birthday, you can eat fish. [ Laughter ] I believe that's what that priest was saying when he was -- no. Bill: But you know, any time you repress human nature instead of channel it -- you know, this country is such a great success because we channel human nature. We channel greed brilliantly. You have to do the same thing with sexual urges, don't you? Don't you have to channel them instead of trying to repress them? Did you read about those madrasses in Pakistan where all the -- those schools where the boys go? And you know, they separate the boys in that culture from all women -- who are covered up, of course -- from an early age. And the reporter went over there to the school. And, of course, the first thing out of these kids mouth is, "Would you like a [ bleep ]?" "Could you give me a [ bleep ]?" I mean, these kids are just dying for sex of any kind because they are put into a world that's like prison. Merrill: I totally agree with that. [ Laughter ] Bill: With what? "Would you like a [ bleep ]?" [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] With the idea that repression -- Merrill: With all of it. No. Yes. It does have to be channeled. We're human beings. I mean, priests aren't Jesus. And he was an exceptional man who had all kinds of capacities to repress urges. Eric: God is the problem here. People have used this word, "God," as if they mean the same thing. And they don't at all. You have five major religions. Some of them worship about six or seven different Gods. People say, "Oh, we all believe in one God." But they don't believe in the same one God the next people believe in. And that's the issue. Bill: That is. Eric: I mean, if people kept quiet about that and just went on their own quiet way, rather than telling everybody what this so-called God believes and how they should behave, the world would be a lot better place. [ Applause ] Merrill: Eric, one of your movies, "The Meaning of Life" -- Jason: "The Meaning of Life"? Merrill: Yeah. In all of your movies, you ask deep, philosophical questions. "What is the meaning of life"? But what you're saying is, and I read one of your poems, it says, "From nothing, to nothing, nothing alive." So you see life, you have this nihilist world view. Eric: Those are positive world view points I have. I think we're all here -- [ Talking over each other ] Eric: -- Learning how to be for a very short space of time. And there's people telling all this [ bleep ] about God which confuses people. Bill: And you really should see "The Life of Brian" if you really want to see something that will make your head explode. [ Cheers and applause ] Shawnee: I think, to me, at the very least, they should be holding theses priests accountable for criminal actions. Bill: They are. Shawnee: Sort of. Bill: No, this Father Geoghan, or whatever his name is, he's -- Merrill:And it's like 19 years later. Merrill: Can't it be just like the guy in the college's office where you can have the nurse in the room, if you want. You can call the nuns. Bill: How about a mom and dad in the room? You know, if it wasn't religion -- Shawnee: Well, why aren't they in the rooms? Bill: If it wasn't called "Religion," would you send your kids to a place with all bachelors? Would you send your kids, "Go ahead here with these celibate, grown men." Eric: Bachelors wearing skirts. Bill: Yeah. No. Eric: Well, they wear props. Bill: Oh, I know. Shawnee: But you throw that religion thing in, and you talk about the questions. The problem with those questions is that, I mean, to ponder those questions in a life is a massive thing that they're using the answers, "We know the answers to those questions, so you better behave. Because you could suffer forever in hell." Jason: Well, we can look at our society, and these priests are disobeying the teachings of their church. And look at the pain that they've caused in the lives of these children. Bill: But we're saying human nature is never gonna change. So if you have an institution that is celibate, where men cannot have sex any other way, it's gonna happen. Shawnee: Right. Bill: Just the way if you don't pay policemen enough money, which we don't, they're gonna be corrupted. Jason: Married men are tempted by women who aren't their wives. Single people are tempted. And celibate priests have the same urges, just like any other human being. But the fact of the matter is, you said, "They're not Jesus," but the Catholic Church teaches that a priest comes here as the representative of Jesus Christ and that they're called to that higher standard. Mother Theresa, she brought so much joy and happiness to millions of people who are suffering. Could she have done that if she was taking care of a family? You cannot dedicate yourself to the poor, to the weak and the downtrodden when you're taking care of a family. Bill: How ridiculous is that statement? [ Light laughter ] Jason: That's ridiculous? Bill: Why not? You mean you have to take care of the poor and the downtrodden 24, 7? You can't do it 12 hours a day and then go home to your family? Jason: In India? You bring your children to India and expose them to malaria? Bill: What do you mean? You bring your kids? Shawnee: No, I have a 2-year-old, but I'm every day at "Becker" saving the world, and I go home a take care of my children. Merrill: They're a very downtrodden bunch. Bill: Well, I gotta save the world right now. We'll take a break. [ Applause ] Bill: Well, the United Negro College Fund had its 50th anniversary awards this evening. The first lady was dispatched there to try to reach out to the black audience. I don't know how well that went. She tried. At one point she said Dick Cheney would have liked to have been there, but he couldn't, he was in his secure, undisclosed crib. [ Laughter ] Bill: Okay, I want to talk a little bit about Sheryl Crowe. She's on the cover of "Stuff" magazine in the classic "Here's my ass, how do you like it" pose. [ Laughter ] And I love Sheryl Crowe. She's one of my favorites. I think she is the class of the music world in a lot of ways. But she made a comment, which actually backed me up on something I said about a month ago. I was defending strippers. And I said if you turn the sound down on MTV, or if strippers lip-sync, it's pretty much the exact same thing. [ Laughter ] Okay? I don't know if you saw -- [ Applause ] And that's not a criticism. I like both sexy videos and strippers and anything with half-naked chicks. I don't know if you saw Christina Aguilera at the closing of the Olympics, but the last time I had a performance like that, it cost me $50 -- [ Laughter ] -- And the girl was under the name of Onyx. [ Laughter ] But Sheryl Crowe -- shut up. Sheryl Crowe said -- she said -- I don't know why, after posing for this, she would make this comment. It's indefensible hypocrisy, but I love you, Sheryl, anyway. But she said that Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera -- she said, "They're being marketed like porn stars." She doesn't think sex should be selling music. So forget that she did this. [ Laughter ] And is doing the exact same thing. Eric: Yeah, forget that she did that, and she was on the Grammys wearing a Teddy. [ Laughter ] Shawnee: She can sing the real thing without a fake track in the back, so she's allowed to be naked. Jason: The tragedy was -- I saw the Grammys, and I was shocked. The message that the Grammys sent to me was that if you're a young woman and you want to have a career in the music industry, you have to have the perfect body, and you better be willing to expose it. If you're a guy, you can be ugly, you can be overweight, and you can have a career. But if you're a woman, you better be very attractive, and you better be willing to show your body, and I think that's wrong. Shawnee: That's why I have a band -- [ Applause ] I take that very seriously. That's why I have a band called $5 Ho. [ Laughter ] We can't find a bass player now because the bass lines are so intricate musically. I wish I could find someone hot to play it. Nevertheless, it's calling it what it is my point. Bill: I don't know what your point is, but I'm sure it's valid. Shawnee: Selling sex. Tiffany was just on -- Bill: She hasn't been selling anything for a long time, so let's leave her out of it. Shawnee: I was thinking maybe she couldn't take her clothes off then, and now it's take your clothes off. Merrill: Maybe it's a good idea that when you have a singer doing concert and they're dressed that way, throw a couple bucks up on the stage. Shawnee: I make money that way in my shows. Jason: The problem is this is marketed to children. J.C. Penney's just came out with a line of lingerie for young teenagers. Shawnee: What? Jason: J.C. Penney's just came out with a line of lingerie for teenagers, and they're not ashamed of it. You walk through the mall, they actually have the lingerie -- they call it evening wear. It's lingerie for teenagers. Eric: Kids are quite smart. They can see through it. I have an 11-year-old daughter. Jason: That's the problem. She can see right through it. Eric: She's over -- we're beyond that. We see through that. You know, it's no big deal. Jason: She chose to be chaste. She chose to be chaste. She said she doesn't have sex because it would damage her physically, spiritually and emotionally. If she's gonna go on "Sex and the City" and she's gonna play this promiscuous young girl, you can't tell me -- Bill: Wait. Who are we talking about? Jason: Britney Spears is gonna do an episode of "Sex and the City." Shawnee: Well, what about the orgy video? Jason: I didn't know about that video. I know she plans to be chaste. Bill: Look, she's a nice, young woman, but yes, there is a little bit of hypocrisy there, too, because she is very often on the cover of a magazine with that kind of "Come on, do me." [ Laughter ] Remember that one cover -- I think is was "People." It said, "It's so hard to" -- Shawnee: So hard. Bill: Try being a priest, honey. [ Laughter ] Eric: Actually, the priest thing reminds me of the Alicia Keyes thing with "Songs in the Minor." [ Laughter ] Bill: That's "Songs in 'A' Minor." You have misinterpreted again. [ Laughter ] Eric: I'm sorry. Bill: Wow, that's wicked. All right. I'm behind again, so to speak. We'll take a break. [ Applause ] Bill: Paleontologists in China have unearthed the very first fossil of a dinosaur with feathers. Either that or they stumbled across Phyllis Diller. [ Applause ] Okay. Now, Eric -- Eric: Yes, sir. Bill: It is Eric, isn't it? Eric: It is Eric, yes, Bill. Bill: You purport to be of British descent? Eric: I purport, indeed. Bill: Okay. Well, I'm glad you are because Prince Phillip -- he is your Queen's husband? Eric: Yes, he is. Bill: The Duke of Edinburgh? Eric: Edinburgh. Bill: Edinburgh. Sorry. Eric: It's all right. Bill: He is sort of the Ted Turner of the royal family. Eric: In a way, I don't know what you're talking about. [ Laughter ] Bill: Well, Ted Turner is always saying things that are Politically Incorrect, that people call gaffes. I don't think they're gaffes. I think they're truths, okay, but in the politically correct world, they pass for gaffes. Now, let me show you a picture and how the Prince recently got in trouble. Here he is talking to three -- I would guess they're called aborigines. I think this is in Australia. And he said to them -- this is what he got in trouble for. He said, "Do you still throw spears at each other?" [ Laughter ] Now, show the picture again. Now, once again, why would you think that a man -- and by the way, he's standing in a caldron. [ Laughter ] Why would you think that those three gentlemen would, in any way, have something to do with spears? Eric: Well, maybe it was Britney Spears. [ Laughter ] Bill: Everything connects. Eric: He's got a dreadful job. I mean, his job has been -- he's 80 years old. For the last 50 years, he's had to follow the Queen around. That's all he does. She says, "How do you do? How do you do?" And he's the one who says, "How do you do?" I think this is his way to sort of be noticed. I think he says these things because he gets a little bit of attention. Merrill: He's being funny, isn't he? Eric: He's being funny. I think he is trying to be funny. Bill: But is there something wrong with saying to people who look very much like they might actually -- Jason: Well, in fact, they do. Bill: And in fact, they do. How about that? How about that? They're aborigines. They have spears. Merrill: I was thinking it's just too bad that the aborigines didn't turn to him and go, "Are you people still committing acts of genocide against small indigenous populations?" Bill: Well -- [ Scattered applause ] Jason: There aren't any liberal college professors in that region of Australia. Eric: I think the trouble is with the royal families. I think they should be let go. I mean, not because of the country, but because it's not fair to them. I mean, nobody should be followed by cameras and lenses and anything they say blown up and made into anything. I don't think they do, but I think they should be encouraged to be let go. Bill: It's not that big a price to pay, is it, for living free in castles and doing nothing? [ Laughter ] Eric: Doing nothing but having to be out there every day and shake hands with millions of people that you don't necessarily want to meet. Bill: Yeah, I don't know if that's every day. Merrill: Shouldn't there be a writer for them? [ All talking at once ] Eric: I think writers is a good idea. To get writers for them would be a very good idea so the lines are funny. Jason: Doesn't every family have an old guy like Prince Phillip in it who at the wrong time says the wrong thing? Bill: But why is it the wrong thing if it's true? You just said they do. Jason: Well, they do. Bill: Okay. Jason: But he knew -- he's a smart guy. This is a guy who was on the battleship "Missouri" when the emperor surrendered. He was really -- for royalty -- for royalty, this guy had a pretty rough upbringing. He knew that this was going to be -- Bill: But what is inherently insulting about people who are native and they do still cast spears? I don't understand. Shawnee: If they weren't offended, why is anyone else offended? Bill: Well, why is -- yeah, because they -- exactly, because they're not really offended. They're only offended in public. Shawnee: 'Cause everyone else made a big deal about it, so now they're embarrassed. Jason: You say things that are true all the time that offend people, and you know before you say them that they're going to offend people, but as someone whose job is to create social awareness and be funny, that's your job. This Prince Phillip knows that what he said is gonna offend people even if it's not offensive. He's a smart enough man to know that. Merrill: I don't think he does know. I think that's just his idea -- Bill: He once said British women can't cook. [ Laughter ] Jason: Well, that's true. Shawnee: If British women can't cook, then the British men wouldn't eat. Eric: It was dash, dash, dash, cook. It was "C," dash, dash -- [ Laughter ] Merrill: Well, he also said of his daughter, the horseback rider, he said if it doesn't fart and eat hay, then she's not interested. That's pretty funny. Eric: And she married the man who farts and eats hay. [ Laughter ] Bill: All right. We got to take another break. We'll be back. [ Applause ] Bill: All right, we ran out of time again. There is Merrill's book. It's "My" something "Birthday." Buy it, and you can fill in the letters. [ Applause ] Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher abc.com Go Network ©2002 Follow Up Productions, Inc. -----------------------------------